[Christine]

I have a married couple where the husband wroks and lives in Alberta and the wife moved to Manitoba with their three childredn in Nov/07. They (husband & wife) purchased a home in Manitoba and he rents in Alberta. At this time he is going to still be working in Alberta and coming to Manitoba once every month & 1/2 for 1 week. When I go to file the return on the residence as of the end of Dec it will not allow me to put his as Alberta and hers as Manitoba. If I change the wife's to Mb it changes his. Any help on how to override this. Tried F2 but it will not let me. I have her address as Mb and his as Ab but it will not let me change the residence.

[RL Tax Joe]

Christine, on Apr 17 2008, 09:41 PM, said:

I have a married couple where the husband wroks and lives in Alberta and the wife moved to Manitoba with their three childredn in Nov/07. They (husband & wife) purchased a home in Manitoba and he rents in Alberta. At this time he is going to still be working in Alberta and coming to Manitoba once every month & 1/2 for 1 week. When I go to file the return on the residence as of the end of Dec it will not allow me to put his as Alberta and hers as Manitoba. If I change the wife's to Mb it changes his. Any help on how to override this. Tried F2 but it will not let me. I have her address as Mb and his as Ab but it will not let me change the residence.

Perhaps you should research residency rules. Alternatively you could have a PDA (Professional Designated Accountant) assist you with this.

[Christine]

Christine, on Apr 18 2008, 02:41 AM, said:

I have a married couple where the husband wroks and lives in Alberta and the wife moved to Manitoba with their three childredn in Nov/07. They (husband & wife) purchased a home in Manitoba and he rents in Alberta. At this time he is going to still be working in Alberta and coming to Manitoba once every month & 1/2 for 1 week. When I go to file the return on the residence as of the end of Dec it will not allow me to put his as Alberta and hers as Manitoba. If I change the wife's to Mb it changes his. Any help on how to override this. Tried F2 but it will not let me. I have her address as Mb and his as Ab but it will not let me change the residence.

OK that's what I was missing. Sorry I have never had spouses living and working in two different provinces before so this is not something I come across on a regular basis. I thought this was a forum for help when you need it. (At late hours) I would of called CRA but I think they are closed right now and just thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Obviously I am and I will check into this tomorrow.

[Sujata]

Christine, on Apr 17 2008, 11:07 PM, said:

OK that's what I was missing. Sorry I have never had spouses living and working in two different provinces before so this is not something I come across on a regular basis. I thought this was a forum for help when you need it. (At late hours) I would of called CRA but I think they are closed right now and just thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Obviously I am and I will check into this tomorrow.

Since you are using ProFile, I assume you are a Professional Filer charging fees for preparing tax returns. You should be doing your own research on tax matters and not calling CRA hotline for help. The general enquiries line at CRA is not staffed by specialists in tax laws. You use that line to get information about tax returns, not instructions on how to prepare them.
Your question is very basic and every professional tax preparer is expected to know the answer or how to find it from the ITA. That is the reason why no one here is answering it for you. We do help each other when real issues come up.

[James1]

Christine, on Apr 17 2008, 10:07 PM, said:

OK that's what I was missing. Sorry I have never had spouses living and working in two different provinces before so this is not something I come across on a regular basis. I thought this was a forum for help when you need it. (At late hours) I would of called CRA but I think they are closed right now and just thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Obviously I am and I will check into this tomorrow.

Don't worry about it, late hours tend to make our minds go soft. It appears that you are on the right track now. You may also want to get your hands on some research material for these late nights. (At least CCH prepare your income tax return book and keep you copy of the tax act current.)

Good Luck

James

[Dink Meeker]

RL Tax Joe, on Apr 17 2008, 10:45 PM, said:

Perhaps you should research residency rules. Alternatively you could have a PDA (Professional Designated Accountant) assist you with this.

I have been correcting returns prepared by PDA's for over 20 years, so that line is as old as it is inaccurate. I have never had to prepare this type of return in my career. Know why? I don't practice near a provincial border. We grow experience and expertise in those areas we practice most often.

At least the real Joe would have given a nudge toward some insightful reading material. That's all anybody needs.

And you wonder why people are hesitant about posting questions on these boards. :(

[ChrisG]

Dink Meeker, on Apr 18 2008, 07:43 AM, said:

I have been correcting returns prepared by PDA's for over 20 years, so that line is as old as it is inaccurate. I have never had to prepare this type of return in my career. Know why? I don't practice near a provincial border. We grow experience and expertise in those areas we practice most often.

At least the real Joe would have given a nudge toward some insightful reading material. That's all anybody needs.

And you wonder why people are hesitant about posting questions on these boards. :(

Actually Christine's question is not easy to answer, but indeed interesting. And I agree the receptionist at the CRA will not have a clue. While we don't know all the details, there are probably arguments for the client fo file either as AB or MB. The residency guidelines are not that clear and intended to determine Canadian or foreign residency rather than interprovincial. It would have been different had he moved from MB, left his family and went to work in Alberta. But in this situation, he did not move to a new job, probably still has AB healthcare, drivers license and auto registration, etc. On the other hand, his family home is now in MB where his family resides. What I would do here is search for any court decisions in similiar situations, but it being hectic this time of year I would probably file them as residents of separate provinces, once his intent is established, that is whether this will be a permanent or long term arrangement. The mother, well what other roots did she establish in MB other than buying a home? There may be arguments for filing her in either province.

So Christinie if you are confident and ready to defend your position, you have to uncouple them in the Profile software.

And Dink you are correct, I'll bet most PDAs would have to do some work on this one as well, and no guarantee that they will get it right.

[James1]

ChrisG, on Apr 18 2008, 09:25 AM, said:

Actually Christine's question is not easy to answer

And Dink you are correct, I'll bet most PDAs would have to do some work on this one as well, and no guarantee that they will get it right.

I would agree with you on both these points. However, there is not enough information provided to make a determination which province to claim in. I would have to research it myself since I have not had that situation crop up either.

James

[unknown]

Residency is generally a matter of fact.

So where is the preponderance of residential ties...

Quote

I have a married couple where the husband wroks and lives in Alberta and the wife moved to Manitoba with their three childredn in Nov/07. They (husband & wife) purchased a home in Manitoba and he rents in Alberta. At this time he is going to still be working in Alberta and coming to Manitoba once every month & 1/2 for 1 week. When I go to file the return on the residence as of the end of Dec it will not allow me to put his as Alberta and hers as Manitoba. If I change the wife's to Mb it changes his. Any help on how to override this. Tried F2 but it will not let me. I have her address as Mb and his as Ab but it will not let me change the residence.

My take on it, with the facts as stated: Their clear intent is for their home to be Manitoba. They jointly own a home there, which they jointly inhabit, although he is not always physically present, which is very common in the 'patch' (have many clients on extended foreign work assignments). I would file him as Manitoba resident.

[dunner]

Have to agree with you (and I am one of those "PDA's" ... which I always thought was my Treo) that it's not a basic question. I looked at it and it didn't come to me right off the bat. I will second or third the idea of NOT calling CRA. First, they won't know the answer, and second, it's not a federal issue, it's a provincial tax issue (two provinces). Like Dink, I don't see this in central Ontario.

[ChrisG]

Bert_Mulder_CGA, on Apr 18 2008, 08:41 AM, said:

Residency is generally a matter of fact.

So where is the preponderance of residential ties...
My take on it, with the facts as stated: Their clear intent is for their home to be Manitoba. They jointly own a home there, which they jointly inhabit, although he is not always physically present, which is very common in the 'patch' (have many clients on extended foreign work assignments). I would file him as Manitoba resident.

I agree that the location of the family home is the kicker here, but at the same time I have not found anything stating that spouses cannot live in separate provinces or countries for that matter. And I fail to see the clarity in the intent for the home to be in Manitoba for every member of the family. The patch situation is different. This is a reverse of it.

[unknown]

That I also agree on with you, Chris..

There is no rule saying they cannot have residency in different places...

But from the facts stated, to me their intent seems clear, especially as on a regular schedule 'he returns HOME for a week'. If that is the way HE states it... Your home is where your heart is...

[dunner]

I checked the Alberta Tax Act and the Manitoba Tax Act. They both subject people to tax in their province who were "resident" in the province at the end of the year (Dec 31). Note that it doesn't say "A resident" of the province. The ITA (federal) subjects people to tax in Canada if they are a "resident of Canada" as opposed to just residing in Canada. To be "resident" could mean just having a dwelling in that province so the person could probably pick Alberta or Manitoba. There may be interpretations that have been issued by either province to clarify that term but I think the individual has his choice of province. And I agree that his family may not be resident in the same province.

[James1]

Bert_Mulder_CGA, on Apr 18 2008, 09:41 AM, said:

I would file him as Manitoba resident.

My initial thought was that as well ;however, there may be other factors that cannot be explained in five sentences that need to be considered. I am sure he will not be very happy after they have deducted tax at Alberta rates and pay tax at Manitoba Rates. That being said you still have to research it.

I am also sure that the Manitoba government would be more than happy to take the tax revenue. Alberta has enough already anyways. :lol:

James

[unknown]

James1, on Apr 18 2008, 09:25 AM, said:

My initial thought was that as well ;however, there may be other factors that cannot be explained in five sentences that need to be considered. I am sure he will not be very happy after they have deducted tax at Alberta rates and pay tax at Manitoba Rates. That being said you still have to research it.

I am also sure that the Manitoba government would be more than happy to take the tax revenue. Alberta has enough already anyways. :lol:

James

Chuckle...

As I said, on the facts as presented. There may be other facts which were not presented...

[Christine]

Here is an update. Spoke with the wife this morning and she advised me that she still holds her driver's license, medical etc in Alberta as of today. Husband does not rent (client misunderstood, that's another matter) he still maintains their home in Alberta it never sold. Now things have changed. He was suppose to get a job in Mb and move here in April but that now has changed and he will be staying in Ab and she may be moving back. And they both have been going to visit each other, her & the kids more than him.
And yes it does make a difference in taxes if I change him. Ab - refund -$7,000 Mb - owing $250.

[unknown]

That changes my answer considerably.....

Now the facts swing in favor of Alberta, not only for him, but possibly for her as well...

[spenceh]

Bert_Mulder_CGA, on Apr 18 2008, 09:55 AM, said:

That changes my answer considerably.....

Now the facts swing in favor of Alberta, not only for him, but possibly for her as well...

Consider having the both clients complete an NR73 or NR74 form and send them to the International Taxation Office for a ruling as to province of residence. Unfortunately, your answer may not come until May. 8(

[dunner]

Quote

complete an NR73 or NR74

Alberta's still in Canada, though, for the time being. :D

[unknown]

Helga, please hit the edit button now, before it is too late...

Notice you were up really early this morning, so we will not hold this one against you, this time...

:)